"Progressive Social Conservatives" or "Authentic Conservatives"
As associated subcategories and welcome allies: populists, agrarians, distributivists, subsidiarists, the religious traditionalist left, family-values socialists, voegelinians, kuyperians, grantians, cavaliers and tories.
Half a year after Prime Minister Ariel Sharon announced its broad outlines, his disengagement plan remains firmly clamped to the drawing board - still undergoing refinements and revisions, still as many as eight months or more even from a cabinet green light for the slightest hint of substantive implementation.
Nonetheless, perhaps more than any development since the Oslo process, the initiative has radically re-engineered the workings of Israel's right, rescuing old names from obscurity and seclusion, thrusting new and controversial figures into key roles.
Certainly, change is no stranger to the right. Of the many names by which the nation's rightists are known, one is conspicuous by its absence: conservatives.
In fact, the tradition of the right in Israel is one of unceasing ferment, a volcanic process of perpetual revolution and re-invention. Molded by decades spent in the political shadow of the Labor collossus, the Likud, flagship of the Israeli right, lifeboat of the embittered Sephardi Second Israel, became a force that - even when it ruled the country - has ever and always remained a party in opposition.
An expression, even today, of reaction to the pro-socialist establishment that once controlled Israel from statecraft to sports, from diplomacy to department stores, from agriculture to popular culture, the rightist tradition is determinedly iconoclastic, founded in the rebellions represented by Menachem Begin's Irgun Zva'i Leumi pre-state underground, Yitzhak Shamir's even more militant Lehi armed group, and the come-what-may settlement cadres of Gush Emunim.
For decades, internal rightist political activity has been at once stoked and undermined by what may be called the Davka Factor - the contrarian, attention-attracting lurch to the further right, of which Ariel Sharon, for decades the leading also-ran of his creation the Likud, was a principal exponent.
That's how it came to be that dissension among hard-liners in the national camp was what helped end the Likud reigns in 1992 and 1999. In what may be a corollary of the axiom that "Only the Likud-led rightist government can bring peace," it may also be argued that only the right can bring down a Likud-led government.
This year, the tectonic shock of the disengagement plan has jolted the latent oppositionism of the right into the fore once again.
Long opposed to the evacuation of even one settlement, the right - faced with a Sharon plan to level more than one out of every six settlements in the territories - is now struggling with a number of possible responses, including accepting the disengagement as a springboard to future Israeli annexation of West Bank settlement blocs; refusing to follow orders to evacuate; and fighting an indefinite delaying action within the government, against implementation of the plan.
For a growing circle of hawks, the downfall of the Sharon government has become the immediate goal. The Yesha settlers council, the nation's best-oiled political machine, this month vowed to send the government to the bottom. Then Effi Eitam, the gruff, at times messianic chairman of the National Religious Party, jumped ship this month, soon after Sharon shoved the pro-transfer National Union overboard.
At the same time, there are signs of the emergence of a different form of a New Right in Israel - a center-right public that may portend a powerful force in the country's political landscape
The right as center
Earlier this month, the results of a public opinion poll suggested that there has been a shift in the way Israelis have come to view the political spectrum itself.
Asked whether they defined themselves as right, center or left, the Peace Index poll showed that fully 50 percent of Israeli Jews currently define themselves as right, 21 percent as center, and 18 percent as left.
Even though 71 percent defined themselves as right or center, the same poll, taken after Sharon's resounding defeat in the Likud referendum on the Gaza evacuation plan, showed that 63 percent of Israeli Jews believed that the prime minister "should remain in his post and continue promoting the disengagement plan in other ways."
According to Haaretz commentator Gideon Samet, "There has been a major change in the definition of 'right' and 'left.' The right is no longer what it used to be in the time of Begin, Shamir, Netanyahu, and even what it was during Sharon's first term."
As a whole, Samet says, "The right has withdrawn from the dream and the vision of a Greater Israel. Moreover, it has deserted the idea of 'no withdrawals,' and has come close to the center."
Likud voters still regard themselves as belonging to the right, Samet notes, "but what they are saying is no longer the stuff of the right, it's no longer the classic stuff of the Likud."
Within the new climate, with disengagement in the air if not on the ground, the following are a few of the less-renowned principals who have taken notable recent roles in what may be a fateful struggle for Israel's future:
URI ELITZUR
Former bureau chief of the head of the Prime Minister's Office during the Netanyahu administration, Uri Elitzur has long headed election-time public relations for the National Religious Party, and is currently editor of the Yesha settlement council's Nekuda monthly.
Elitzur, who once headed an organization opposed to the evacuation of Sinai settlements under a 1979 peace treaty with Egypt, stirred wide reaction last week by writing in a national religious publication that "the uprooting of a settlement is illegal and shocking and thus justifies the refusal of orders, violence excluding the use of firearms, and any method by which an individual is able to defend his home from which he is being evicted for political reasons."
He further advised soldiers to refuse to evacuate settlements because "these would be illegal orders and whoever carries them out would be put on trial."
Heretofore, support for refusal to obey military orders had come largely from the left.
ZVI HENDEL
A farmer by profession, Zvi Hendel is the only member of Knesset who lives in the Gaza Strip, in the settlement of Ganei Tal.
He is a member of the firebrand National Union faction, a far-right amalgam of transfer supporters, anti-compromise settlement officials, and hard-liners who emigrated from the former Soviet Union.
Even before he became one of the most strident anti-disengagement voices of the right, Hendel came to public notice with his response to a reported January 2002 statement by U.S. Ambassador Daniel Kurtzer, that Israel would rather spend money on settlements in the territories than on its disabled citizens, who were then in the midst of protest strike for government benefits.
"It can't be that Israel allows the interference of a little Jew-boy, a little Jew-boy, that represents the United States ... in an internal Israeli dispute," Hendel told a dumbfounded Knesset.
More recently, Hendel strongly implied that Sharon had devised the disengagement plan in order to divert attention from police investigations into alleged corruption on the part of the prime minister, parodying a one-time Labor diplomatic formulation ("The deeper the peace, the deeper the withdrawal") by saying, "The deeper the investigation, the deeper the withdrawal."
ZEVULUN ORLEV
Leader of the relatively moderate sector of the strongly pro-settlement National Religious Party, Zevulun Orlev is seen as the key to the future of the current Sharon government. When NRP chief Eitam and his predecessor Yitzhak Levy bolted the government - leaving the coalition with only 59 seats in the 120-seat Knesset - it was Orlev who kept the NRP's remaining four legislators in the Sharon camp, keeping the government afloat, at least for the near future.
In an argument that has resonated with Likud backbenchers, who fear new elections could leave them out of parliament, Orlev maintains that the current framework keeps Labor out of a unity government and simultaneously forestalls new elections.
REUVEN RIVLIN
Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin, who until the disengagement plan was one of Sharon's signal confidantes and vocal champions, has taken advantage of his position to lobby against the initiative during state observances and official functions.
Drawing leftist criticism for politicizing the central Independence Day torch-lighting ceremony, Rivlin dedicated a torch to the Knesset and the "pioneers who go before the camp, those who settle the land of our forefathers and redeem its earth, from Hanita [on the northern border] to Kfar Darom [a Gaza settlement slated for evacuation under the disengagement], and from Negba [in the south] to Kiryat Arba which is Hebron."
Last week, Rivlin followed Sharon in addressing the dedication ceremony of the Menachem Begin Heritage Center in Jerusalem. Sharon quoted Begin as having said it was his duty to carry out the evacuation of Yamit as part of the 1979 peace treaty with Egypt. "Until the day I die, I will carry this pain in my heart," Sharon quoted Begin as saying. "But it was my duty as prime minister."
"It is in this spirit that I have acted up until now," Sharon declared, "and this is how I intend to continue."
In Rivlin's address, he responded by quoting Begin as well. "So long as I lead the nation as prime minister," Rivlin quoted Begin as vowing, "I promise that we will not leave any part of Judea, Samaria and Gaza, and Jerusalem will be the only capital of Israel forevermore."
I for one would be extremely interested to learn exactly what specific alternatives are favored by those voting for "Other" -- or, if they haven't yet thought of or come across any they like, why exactly they reject the choices given, in particular "Conservative" and "Traditionalist." I find this whole subject of what name our side should call itself both extremely interesting and extremely important, in terms of simple truth (sort of like "truth in advertising," which has great moral and philosophical importance), in terms of strategic value (all political terms and names have some sort of propaganda effect -- it's unavoidable), and for other reasons.
As almost all Americans are influenced by Whig politics, and "Conservatives" today are the nationalists of Hamiltonian stripe and "Traditionalists" are republicans of the Jeffersonian hue I think that Tertium Quid, following Mr. John Randolph of Roanoke, to be appropriate.
It is a term just eccentric enough for "truth in advertising" and gives a sense of the doomed that is helpful in terms of "strategic value". Consider the success of Mr. Randolph and his enduring (though limited) fame. That should be our calling; Tertium Quid, our label.
I included it because a lot of the original American Right called itself "individualist" because it defined itself in opposition to the New Deal and leftish collectivism generally. ISI, for example, was originally the "Intercollegiate Society of Individualists." So at one time it really was a conservative slogan even though philosophically it's not conservative at all. I thought though that there might be some old-timers or paleolibertarians lurking about who still like the expression. Evidently not, at least not at this site.
Conservatives —instant lumping in with Pat Robertson, the Moral Majority, the Buckley and National Review, Bush II, etc. All of whom have their points, but at present the term is laden with hypocrisy because so many so called conservatives failed so badly to stem the growth of "big government", the extension of government into our lives. So that's out.
Right-wingers —what are we, boring Paul McCartney fans? Members of a debate team? Right-wing implies a necessary side to a two-sided thing, a yin to a yang, a balance to something. I'm thinking the problems are too deep for that to work. It's like this. The bird had a heart attack and is falling fast. To play on parlimentary terms, we don't need to be on the right wing, we need to leave the building. To play on flight, we need to hit the ejection button. So that's out.
Patriots. Too Mel Gibson. But I'll come back to it later.
This is a useful point to stop and answer this question: why would a serious conservative want to pick a name? To impress himself? To guide others? To affront and anger others?
We need to name ourselves to be fair and charitable to ourselves and to others. The name should describe our views and our aspirations. It should also serve to distinquish us and our views from others and other arguments. Finally, it should be as clever and attractive as possible.
Traditionalists. Too many syllables. Also, an instant turn-off to most Americans who might wonder, well, whose tradition? However, we'll come back to this too.
Normal People. Too abrasive. Obvious attack. Good for starting fights, but questionable usefullness. I am open to a history lesson. Wasn't there a political party that advocated a return to "normalcy"? How did that work out? Otherwise, another disqualification.
Individualists. Instant association with Ayn Rand and libertarians of all stripes. Like the above regarding conservaties, she and they had and have their points, but the term has been been swamped by, unfairly or otherwise, an association with ridiculous libertine "lifestyles". For example, a couple of years ago the Economist ran an article advocating the legalization of prostitution. Terrific. If that's what an "individualist" is, and that's what the usual association is, I'd rather describe myself as a "religious right-wing conservative whacko."
Progressives. Great if we'd just conquered a vast untamed territory and were building a new industrial economy. We're not. The feel now is, what's gonna crack first? Or it's, "I have confidence that we'll figure out a new technology to get us out of these energy, ecological, financial, educational, terrorist problems." Note that the question is not about changing moral norms, but about finding the next thing. Progressive implies pushing forward. People intuitively know that it is not that simple. We, they, can hear the enemy in the rear and on the flanks. How can we push forward when there is not much to base our push upon? So this is out. Disqualified due to prior use by Teddy Roosevelt et al.
Back to Patriots. Would be useful if everyone had studied latin. Then the root of the word would resonate on a deep level. As it is, it just comes off as self-righteousness, which, if not backed up with a gun and the credibility of a Mel Gibson, just sinks. Plus its doomed for vagueness.
Back to Traditionalists. For various reasons well-explained on this site, this is the best default term. It's particular enough. People still use the word tradition, even if its only to describe how they pack their motor vehicle for Sunday's football game, or for the trip to the beach or whatever. So people know what your are talking about. Instantly. That's good. And fair. And who cares if it throws up connotations of being stuck in a rut, of being anti-tech or the future. Even techies respect tradition —the scientific tradition, norms, etc. On the other hand it is just vague enough —whose tradition? to lead to a useful discussion.
Mr. Franco asks what Turnabout readers think of the term reactionary? I for one don't think it's ideal because it's one of those terms that defines our side's views and values in terms of the other side and its aberrations — it makes us out to be "a reaction to them." We are no more a reaction to them than we are a reaction to Jeffrey Dahmer. They're sick or, if not sick themselves on an individual level, favor giving primacy to sickness. We're normal or, if not normal ourselves on an individual level, favor giving primacy to normalness. Our side is "progressive" and is the only side that is. Any progress to be made can only be made by the side of truth. Their side is incapable of making progress because progress never grows out of wrongness, lies, and perversion.
True or false?: Our side desires to make progress. True or false?: The left is incapable of making progress. True or false?: Between us and the left, ours is the only side capable of making genuine progress. OK — so, why are they called Progressives and we not? Shouldn't it be the reverse?
Let's say in some extremely weird cult the members drank poisons that caused harm to themselves — this poison harmed the liver, that one the heart, that the kidneys, that other one the lungs, and so on (so that after a few years the cult members became sick and debilitated). In order to distinguish ourselves from that cult, would we call ourselves the Conservatives? Or, perhaps, the Traditionalists? Of course not. We'd call ourselves the Normals and them the Weirdos. Moreover, calling ourselves one of the other two would almost concede legitimacy to the cult, as if they had a valid point of view which was merely different from ours. That would be not only wrong but ridiculous. Drinking poison isn't the only way to be weird. Is government abolishing races weird? Is government importing literally the entire nations of Mexico, Somalia, and Nigeria with the intention of replacing our original population weird? Is government trying to make men into women and vice-versa weird? Is government encouraging all fifteen-year-old schoolgirls in a England and Wales to perform fellatio on their classmates weird? Is government cracking down on cops because they are too manly (too "macho") or because what is referred to as their after-hours "heavy-drinking bar culture" excludes teetotalers weird? Is outlawing God and abolishing religion weird? Is forcing society to accept the idea of "marriage" between two men who suffer from a sexual perversion weird? Yes, it is? All that — and so much more — is weird? Plenty weird? Well then, does it make sense for us to distinguish ourselves from all that weirdness by calling ourselves "Conservatives" or "Traditionalists"? It wouldn't appear to…
In the poll I favored two choices: "Normal people" and "Progressives." (I had to choose only one, so I chose "Normal people.") I concede nothing to the other side — not legitimacy, not anything.
In the above comment of mine and in this and this earlier ones, what I was trying to say was what Rabbi Schiller says here:
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David Kerr: Would you describe yourself as a cultural conservative? Rabbi Mayer Schiller: Well, certainly as far as contemporary terminology goes that’s an accurate description, although what we call "conservatism" today would simply be considered normal life fifty years ago or a hundred years ago. There aren’t two sides on questions of basic decency, respect and modesty. I really think there aren’t two sides to these issues so if conservatism implies acceptance to this other illegitimate side I reject it [...].
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(Rabbi Schiller is saying there's one normalness, not two.)
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"Conservative" has been so abused that it should either be redefined (if that is not strictly possible, then at least described as done by Russel Kirk in his 6 Credos and 10 principles that he believed conservatives have in common) or not used unless specified in reference to some clearly identifiable or historical manifestation, such as "Burkean conservative" or "fiscal conservative"). I have hardly any idea of what your "serious conservative" means nowadays, when rogues and fools use the term to obscure their motives or dignify their confusion. I don't think a cloistered monk has much in common with an objectivist CEO or a CATO Libertarian or Buchanan nationalist, etc. The term is too dignified by serious and informed thinkers to be used in the mean and opportunistic partisan politics of the US today. It is clear that virtually no other people in the world (including Canada) use the word as a practical political descriptor as it is being used in the dozens of fund-raising letters I have received lately.
lazy rich people,crackers,losers white trailer trash,suburbanites with a trailer in his/her minds,weisse untermenschen, garbage pale kids,root beer catholic irish acting as white anglo saxon people,morons,conservatives retardos,disposable people,etc.
I don't particularly care for any of the suggested terms. Well, I like Conservative, but it's a blanket term at this point that is inadequately descriptive for the endeavor.
I like Reclaimers, but it's probably too cheesy.
Hard to come up with something to sum up an opposition to supercilious bullying of liberalism and a return to and inheritance of received tradition as well as a forward-looking rationalism.
Chilton Williamson Jr. makes a few brief comments on the topic of what conservatism is, in an article about his new book at Vdare.com:
"I believe that conservatism is not, to use that overworked term, an 'ideology.' The conservative tradition is valuable because it is real, real because it is living, and alive to the extent that it cannot be precisely defined, identified, and transfixed with a pin to any fixed place within the political taxonomy. Oscar Wilde quipped that people who make fun of Society are the ones who can’t get into it. Similarly, the neoconservatives -- who insist on defining conservatism in ideological terms -- are those who never were part of the conservative tradition in the first place, and don’t belong to it now. [...P]aleoconservatives are neither delusionary nor insane, nor even ignorant. There is a discernible and coherent intellectual and political tradition in the West that traces forward four millennia and ends, essentially, with us. What is more, this tradition was accepted as rational, reasonable, and even commonsensible up until the time of Bacon, or thereabouts."
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"If a tree falls and an expert doesn't hear it, is there a sound?" Yes, the sweetest, most melodious sound in all creation: the sound of entropy being brought clanking, screeching, grinding to a halt.
Here's a thoughtful article on the nature of leftism by a blogger, John Ray, whom I've been aware of for some time now but hadn't really begun exploring until the other day. In this sampling taken almost at random from a very long piece he gets into the "Was Brezhnev a conservative?" paradox among many other analyses of the left-right divide, making lots of points having inevitable bearing on the subject of this Turnabout poll: What should conservative call themselves? Is the appellation "Conservative" satisfactory? (I find it wholly unsatisfactory and, though I use it to refer to myself out of convention -- and sort of cringe inwardly each time I do -- I no more consider myself a "conservative" than I consider myself, let's say, a Country Club Republican -- or the Man in the Moon, for that matter. I continue to feel a name change is needed for our side, while agreeing that's easier said than done. But no, "conservative" is not satisfactory.)
Here's Ray:
"And the great rubric of 'conservative' long fastened on Rightists seems equally moribund. 'Conservative' is generally amplified as meaning 'opposed to change' or 'favouring the status quo' but from the Reagan/Thatcher years onward, Rightists have been the great advocates and practitioners of social and political change. Rightists have been almost revolutionary in tearing down the proud edifices of the Left -- with privatization, deregulation, welfare cutbacks, tax reductions etc. Judging by the politics of the last 20 years, Rightists LOVE change! Certainly, they have clearly and energetically changed what was once the status quo.
"So what is going on? Again, what really IS Leftism/liberalism and WHY are people Leftist/liberal? What, if anything, do people have in common who describe themselves (and are described by others) as 'Leftists,' 'socialists,' 'social democrats,' 'Communists' and (in North America) 'liberals'? However unsatisfactory and apparently simplistic the Left/Right division of the political world may be, there is any amount of research showing it to be a powerful, ubiquitous and perhaps inescapable way of identifying both people and political parties[, ...] so we do need to answer such questions.
"The central proposal here may seem at first paradoxical but it is that attitude to the status quo defines Leftists rather than Rightists. It is proposed that it is not Rightists who are in favour of the status quo. They are in fact indifferent to it and may equally favour it or oppose it according to circumstances. Leftists, on the other hand, always RESENT the status quo in the modern democracies, no matter what. Whatever else the Leftist may be, the bedrock of Leftism is a strong dislike or even a hatred of the way the world is. They have a strong desire or even a need for political change, often extreme change. This does not, of course, mean that Leftists will favour all sorts of change equally. What sort of change the Leftist favours will depend on what it is about the world that the Leftist dislikes. It will depend on the needs that drive his/her desire for change.
"The Rightist, by contrast, generally has no need either for change or its converse. If anything, Rightists favour progress -- both material and social. So most Rightists are conservatives (cautious) not because of their attitude to change per se. On some occasions they may even agree with the particular policy outcomes that the Leftist claims to desire. They resist change, then, mainly when it appears incautious -- and they are cautious (skeptical of the net benefits of particular policies) generally because of their realism about the limitations (selfishness, folly, shortsightedness, aggressiveness etc.) of many of their fellow humans [...]. So it is only vis à vis Leftists that the Right can on some occasions and in some eras appear conservative (cautious about proposals for social change)."
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Notice how in the last part of this excerpt Ray makes the obvious point that "Rightists favor progress." It's a point I've made in support of my feeling that the "Progressives" are us, not they who laughably claim to be. Wrongness and untruths cannot make progress, only rightness. Leftism, being wrongness and untruths, is incapable of contributing to social progress. Social progress can come only from our side.
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"If a tree falls and an expert doesn't hear it, is there a sound?" Yes, the sweetest, most melodious sound in all creation: the sound of entropy being brought clanking, screeching, grinding to a halt.
In his new column up yesterday at Vdare.com, entitled What Became of Conservatives?, Paul Craig Roberts contributes, in effect, to the discussion of what liberalism and conservatism are become today:
"Once upon a time there was a liberal media. It developed out of the Great Depression and the New Deal. Liberals believed that the private sector is the source of greed that must be restrained by government acting in the public interest. The liberals’ mistake was to identify morality with government. Liberals had great suspicion of private power and insufficient suspicion of the power and inclination of government to do good. Liberals became Benthamites (after Jeremy Bentham). They believed that as the people controlled government through democracy, there was no reason to fear government power, which should be increased in order to accomplish more good. [Emphasis added.] The conservative movement that I grew up in did not share the liberals’ abiding faith in government.'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.' [Emphasis in the original.] Today it is liberals, not conservatives, who endeavor to defend civil liberties from the state. Conservatives have been won around to the old liberal view that as long as government power is in their hands, there is no reason to fear it or to limit it. [Emphasis added.] Thus, The Patriot Act, which permits government to suspend a person’s civil liberty by calling him a terrorist with or without proof. Thus, preemptive war, which permits the President to invade other countries based on unverified assertions. There is nothing conservative about these positions. To label them conservative is to make the same error as labeling the 1930s German Brownshirts conservative. American liberals called the Brownshirts 'conservative,' because the Brownshirts were obviously not liberal. They were ignorant, violent, delusional, and they worshipped a man of no known distinction. Brownshirts’ delusions were protected by an emotional force field. Adulation of power and force prevented Brownshirts from recognizing implications for their country of their reckless doctrines."
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I can say I am neither liberal nor conservative as these two "positions" appear to be manifesting themselves today. I am a third thing, whose closest political representation would be Howard Phillips' and Michael Peroutka's Constitution Party (and also the brand-new Vlaams Belang Party in Flanders, incidentally).
I happen to viscerally despise the Country Club Republicans, who represent nothing and are ultimately as degenerate and nihilist as any branch of the extreme left-radical fringe. That's why I never read CCR-worshipping sites such as NRO and Lucianne.com and only very seldom go to FreeRepublic. By their leftism, their Wall Street toadying, their Supreme Court appointments bordering on the criminally insane, their uncouth and destructive Tranzism only a small step away from both Stalinism and Nazism put together, and the rest of their unacceptable, unnacountable, aloof, haughty, disdainful, supremely arrogant wrongness and Bushism, the CCRs have made themselves a true enemy of this country and of the American people. I could no more vote for George Bush or anyone like him than I could vote for Bill or Hillary.
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"If a tree falls and an expert doesn't hear it, is there a sound?" Yes, the sweetest, most melodious sound in all creation: the sound of entropy being brought clanking, screeching, grinding to a halt.
The nature of conservatism is discussed in a log entry by Martin Hutchinson up tonight at MajorityRights.com and well worth a read (apart from rare blemishes such as where, at the end of the following excerpt, the author refers to Pat Buchanan as a "isolationist nativist").
"The etymology of [the political term 'Conservatism'] is straightforward. The term was first used as a description of a political party in a 50 page article, probably by John Wilson Croker, in the January 1830 Quarterly Review, a publication that generally supported the great Tory governments of 1783-1830, then in their last months of power before losing definitively to the Whigs in November of that year. The 'Conservative' party was indeed the party that sought to preserve what was already there; in this case the specific constitution and policies of those Tory governments, which were by that time embattled.
"After the series of Tory disasters in 1830-32, the term 'Conservative' was picked up by Sir Robert Peel, leader of the Tory remnants, and was used to do three things. First, it was used to reassure traditionalist voters that the party was opposed to further destructive change. Second, it was used to give the party a 'new image' that might appeal to moderates. Third, by stigmatizing them as not 'Conservatives' but 'reactionaries' it was used to de-legitimize the remnants of the Tory right, such as the Duke of Wellington and more distantly the aged Lord Eldon, who were a threat to Peel’s dominance.
"By the time Disraeli became leader of the Conservative Party in 1868, the term had been in use for nearly two generations. It had been set aside after the 1846 split over the Corn Laws, when the party divided into 'Peelites' and 'Protectionists' but had been brought back into full use by Disraeli’s predecessor as leader, the 14th Earl of Derby, after Peel died in 1850 and the party abandoned protectionism in 1852.
"Since the original coiner of a term has a prescriptive right to define its meaning, Conservatism therefore means Conservatism as defined in the Quarterly Review article. It does not mean internationally belligerent Woodrow Wilsonian 'neo-Conservatism' nor the mystical religiously oriented 'social Conservatism' of the U.S. 'red states' nor the isolationist nativist 'paleo-Conservatism' of Patrick Buchanan, nor the leftist social democrat 'Conservatism' of Harold Macmillan and Edward Heath, nor even the 'two nations' modified Whiggery of Disraeli. It means the preservation and where necessary restitution of the constitutional, economic and social policies of the Tory governments of 1783-1830, and in particular of the two great Tory prime ministers William Pitt and Robert, Lord Liverpool."
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The author draws some stark distinctions between conservatism and libertarianism:
"Conservatism is not libertarianism; individual liberty is an important facet of Conservatism, but it is set within an overall framework of a secure social and constitutional order. Unlike Gladstonian liberalism, Conservatism recognizes the imperfections of mankind, and recognizes also that the perfect nirvana of the libertarian social and political order, with minimal government, minimal economic interference and minimal social regulation would in practice be a perfect hell for all but the toughest and least scrupulous. Without government imposing a rule of law, crime would soar unchecked; without market 'rules of the game' (preferably imposed by practitioners rather than by government) fraud and criminality would run rampant; without social order, decent family life would collapse."
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The following characterization of King George III (the king whose judgment in regard to the American Colonies was so faulty he's thought to have been borderline-insane) will surprise Americans:
"A wise monarch such as George III could be very helpful to Conservatism;"
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A perfectly legitimate part of the Church's societal role:
"The Church played an important role in all this. Both Pitt and Liverpool were no more than conventionally church-going, with a strong admixture of the rationalism of David Hume. Nevertheless the Church hierarchy played an important social role. By encouraging an Established Church, for example embarking in 1818 on a substantial church building program in factory towns, Pitt and Liverpool ensured that conventional morality and respect for the constitutional order would be well propagated among the entire community and that sectarian or milleniarist religious radicalism would be discouraged. By discouraging vice and encouraging loyalty, Tory bishops and clergy were doing society’s work as well as God’s. Outside moral questions, the Church had a major voice in political, economic and scientific matters through the Bishops’ membership of the House of Lords, but it did not dominate them."
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As I said, the piece contains blemishes. Here's one:
"a Conservative believes that the world’s population is of inadequate and in rich countries worsening average quality, in terms of intelligence and education, and welcomes advances in genetics as a means towards changing this."
I don't see where an endorsement of eugenics has a role to play in genuine conservatism. I'm open to persuasion. But I just don't see it.
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Francisco Franco writes, "I like 'the Hard Right.' "
What's "Hard" about being normal? What's "Right" about it? Isn't it just ... normal? Does the term "the Hard Right" add something to "normal"? Does "normal" have to be qualified? Do those of us who find partial birth abortion, homosexual pretend-marriage (with possible fines and jail sentences for any who criticize it), the forbidding of the display of the Ten Commandments on a courtroom wall, the humiliation and punishment of kindergartners for saying grace before eating a school snack, forced race-raplacement against the wills of communities with, in some countries including France, Belgium, the U.K., Canada and others, punishment including fines and imprisonment for "hate speech" for those who resist -- do those of us who find these and other horrors unacceptable need to categorize themselves as "Hard Right" for so finding them? A few years ago a bunch of nutcases released sarin gas in the Tokyo subway, killing many. Normal people -- people who are nothing other than normal; who have little or no idea what "the left" and "the right" are and couldn't care less -- can such people condemn that? Do people have to be members of the "Hard Right" or something to oppose that? Well, a nutcase is a nutcase and a moral degenerate a moral degenerate whether he wants to release sarin gas in the Tokyo subway, or punish and humiliate a 6-year-old girl for saying grace, or obsess about the words "under God" in the Pledge as this Newdow nutcase is doing in California. Maybe the parents of that little girl who taught her to say grace are simple folk who never heard of things like "the right" or "the left" -- many simple folk haven't really, and don't know what such terms mean, and don't care. But they know the difference between right and wrong; between morally sick and morally healthy; between normal and degenerate. That, they know. I concede no legitimacy to the other side by moving over within the category of normalness to make room for them to occupy it alongside me, then having to think up something to call myself, to distinguish myself from them, from "their type of normalness." There isn't any other type, but only one -- and they're not it.
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"For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?"
"Reactionary" is excellent. I always use it when posting on liberal forums. Liberals know precisely what reactionaries are and they also know reactionaries know what they are. Helps eliminate much of the liberal pretense of being moderates, independents and so on..
There is also candor and a slight touch of humor in throwing back at them a word they have been taught is derogatory and that, most of them believe, no one would ever admit to being. Tends to disarm them.?
if paul roberts stand against government powers why he supports and endorse to pinochet? is tyranny and neo-liberalism just fine and o.k. when it only affects to latin americans,it remembers me to ron paul who fight commies in america but supports to chà vez and attacks cuban embargo,or people in georgetown university promoting abstinence while designating in their board to gustavo cisneros a representative fro playboy channel n south america.
It means the preservation and where necessary restitution of the constitutional, economic and social policies of the Tory governments of 1783-1830, and in particular of the two great Tory prime ministers William Pitt and Robert, Lord Liverpool.
If this is true, then conservatism does not exist outside of Great Britain. Now, you might object that those in other countries who favor policies that are mostly in philosophical agreement with Tory policies could also be called "conservative", but the piece does not say that.
Also, a Conservative in England today who thinks that certain economic policies of 1783-1830 have since been proven inadequate by advancing economic research and experience would not be allowed to be called "conservative".
The entire quote is a bit of pedantry aimed at separating true conservatism from the false conservatism of the neocons, and others whom the author finds distasteful, such as "red-state social conservatives". The proper means of doing that would be to articulate the conservative principles that were always associated with British conservatism of that era, show how they were followed outside of Britain by true conservatives elsewhere, and then show how those principles are contradicted by neocons, etc. The author attempts to avoid all the heavy lifting by simply employing an etymological fallacy: the word meant a certain thing in 1830, so its meaning is forever frozen. In which case, I should refer to all people who live in rural areas as "pagans", based on the origin of that word.
Comments
Other:
"Progressive Social Conservatives" or "Authentic Conservatives"
As associated subcategories and welcome allies: populists, agrarians, distributivists, subsidiarists, the religious traditionalist left, family-values socialists, voegelinians, kuyperians, grantians, cavaliers and tories.
old right,new right.
Can somebody to comment about this article?
Israel's Right - a field guide
By Bradley Burston, Haaretz Correspondent
Half a year after Prime Minister Ariel Sharon announced its broad outlines, his disengagement plan remains firmly clamped to the drawing board - still undergoing refinements and revisions, still as many as eight months or more even from a cabinet green light for the slightest hint of substantive implementation.
Nonetheless, perhaps more than any development since the Oslo process, the initiative has radically re-engineered the workings of Israel's right, rescuing old names from obscurity and seclusion, thrusting new and controversial figures into key roles.
Certainly, change is no stranger to the right. Of the many names by which the nation's rightists are known, one is conspicuous by its absence: conservatives.
In fact, the tradition of the right in Israel is one of unceasing ferment, a volcanic process of perpetual revolution and re-invention. Molded by decades spent in the political shadow of the Labor collossus, the Likud, flagship of the Israeli right, lifeboat of the embittered Sephardi Second Israel, became a force that - even when it ruled the country - has ever and always remained a party in opposition.
An expression, even today, of reaction to the pro-socialist establishment that once controlled Israel from statecraft to sports, from diplomacy to department stores, from agriculture to popular culture, the rightist tradition is determinedly iconoclastic, founded in the rebellions represented by Menachem Begin's Irgun Zva'i Leumi pre-state underground, Yitzhak Shamir's even more militant Lehi armed group, and the come-what-may settlement cadres of Gush Emunim.
For decades, internal rightist political activity has been at once stoked and undermined by what may be called the Davka Factor - the contrarian, attention-attracting lurch to the further right, of which Ariel Sharon, for decades the leading also-ran of his creation the Likud, was a principal exponent.
That's how it came to be that dissension among hard-liners in the national camp was what helped end the Likud reigns in 1992 and 1999. In what may be a corollary of the axiom that "Only the Likud-led rightist government can bring peace," it may also be argued that only the right can bring down a Likud-led government.
This year, the tectonic shock of the disengagement plan has jolted the latent oppositionism of the right into the fore once again.
Long opposed to the evacuation of even one settlement, the right - faced with a Sharon plan to level more than one out of every six settlements in the territories - is now struggling with a number of possible responses, including accepting the disengagement as a springboard to future Israeli annexation of West Bank settlement blocs; refusing to follow orders to evacuate; and fighting an indefinite delaying action within the government, against implementation of the plan.
For a growing circle of hawks, the downfall of the Sharon government has become the immediate goal. The Yesha settlers council, the nation's best-oiled political machine, this month vowed to send the government to the bottom. Then Effi Eitam, the gruff, at times messianic chairman of the National Religious Party, jumped ship this month, soon after Sharon shoved the pro-transfer National Union overboard.
At the same time, there are signs of the emergence of a different form of a New Right in Israel - a center-right public that may portend a powerful force in the country's political landscape
The right as center
Earlier this month, the results of a public opinion poll suggested that there has been a shift in the way Israelis have come to view the political spectrum itself.
Asked whether they defined themselves as right, center or left, the Peace Index poll showed that fully 50 percent of Israeli Jews currently define themselves as right, 21 percent as center, and 18 percent as left.
Even though 71 percent defined themselves as right or center, the same poll, taken after Sharon's resounding defeat in the Likud referendum on the Gaza evacuation plan, showed that 63 percent of Israeli Jews believed that the prime minister "should remain in his post and continue promoting the disengagement plan in other ways."
According to Haaretz commentator Gideon Samet, "There has been a major change in the definition of 'right' and 'left.' The right is no longer what it used to be in the time of Begin, Shamir, Netanyahu, and even what it was during Sharon's first term."
As a whole, Samet says, "The right has withdrawn from the dream and the vision of a Greater Israel. Moreover, it has deserted the idea of 'no withdrawals,' and has come close to the center."
Likud voters still regard themselves as belonging to the right, Samet notes, "but what they are saying is no longer the stuff of the right, it's no longer the classic stuff of the Likud."
Within the new climate, with disengagement in the air if not on the ground, the following are a few of the less-renowned principals who have taken notable recent roles in what may be a fateful struggle for Israel's future:
URI ELITZUR
Former bureau chief of the head of the Prime Minister's Office during the Netanyahu administration, Uri Elitzur has long headed election-time public relations for the National Religious Party, and is currently editor of the Yesha settlement council's Nekuda monthly.
Elitzur, who once headed an organization opposed to the evacuation of Sinai settlements under a 1979 peace treaty with Egypt, stirred wide reaction last week by writing in a national religious publication that "the uprooting of a settlement is illegal and shocking and thus justifies the refusal of orders, violence excluding the use of firearms, and any method by which an individual is able to defend his home from which he is being evicted for political reasons."
He further advised soldiers to refuse to evacuate settlements because "these would be illegal orders and whoever carries them out would be put on trial."
Heretofore, support for refusal to obey military orders had come largely from the left.
ZVI HENDEL
A farmer by profession, Zvi Hendel is the only member of Knesset who lives in the Gaza Strip, in the settlement of Ganei Tal.
He is a member of the firebrand National Union faction, a far-right amalgam of transfer supporters, anti-compromise settlement officials, and hard-liners who emigrated from the former Soviet Union.
Even before he became one of the most strident anti-disengagement voices of the right, Hendel came to public notice with his response to a reported January 2002 statement by U.S. Ambassador Daniel Kurtzer, that Israel would rather spend money on settlements in the territories than on its disabled citizens, who were then in the midst of protest strike for government benefits.
"It can't be that Israel allows the interference of a little Jew-boy, a little Jew-boy, that represents the United States ... in an internal Israeli dispute," Hendel told a dumbfounded Knesset.
More recently, Hendel strongly implied that Sharon had devised the disengagement plan in order to divert attention from police investigations into alleged corruption on the part of the prime minister, parodying a one-time Labor diplomatic formulation ("The deeper the peace, the deeper the withdrawal") by saying, "The deeper the investigation, the deeper the withdrawal."
ZEVULUN ORLEV
Leader of the relatively moderate sector of the strongly pro-settlement National Religious Party, Zevulun Orlev is seen as the key to the future of the current Sharon government. When NRP chief Eitam and his predecessor Yitzhak Levy bolted the government - leaving the coalition with only 59 seats in the 120-seat Knesset - it was Orlev who kept the NRP's remaining four legislators in the Sharon camp, keeping the government afloat, at least for the near future.
In an argument that has resonated with Likud backbenchers, who fear new elections could leave them out of parliament, Orlev maintains that the current framework keeps Labor out of a unity government and simultaneously forestalls new elections.
REUVEN RIVLIN
Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin, who until the disengagement plan was one of Sharon's signal confidantes and vocal champions, has taken advantage of his position to lobby against the initiative during state observances and official functions.
Drawing leftist criticism for politicizing the central Independence Day torch-lighting ceremony, Rivlin dedicated a torch to the Knesset and the "pioneers who go before the camp, those who settle the land of our forefathers and redeem its earth, from Hanita [on the northern border] to Kfar Darom [a Gaza settlement slated for evacuation under the disengagement], and from Negba [in the south] to Kiryat Arba which is Hebron."
Last week, Rivlin followed Sharon in addressing the dedication ceremony of the Menachem Begin Heritage Center in Jerusalem. Sharon quoted Begin as having said it was his duty to carry out the evacuation of Yamit as part of the 1979 peace treaty with Egypt. "Until the day I die, I will carry this pain in my heart," Sharon quoted Begin as saying. "But it was my duty as prime minister."
"It is in this spirit that I have acted up until now," Sharon declared, "and this is how I intend to continue."
In Rivlin's address, he responded by quoting Begin as well. "So long as I lead the nation as prime minister," Rivlin quoted Begin as vowing, "I promise that we will not leave any part of Judea, Samaria and Gaza, and Jerusalem will be the only capital of Israel forevermore."
What name would those voting "Other" prefer?
I for one would be extremely interested to learn exactly what specific alternatives are favored by those voting for "Other" -- or, if they haven't yet thought of or come across any they like, why exactly they reject the choices given, in particular "Conservative" and "Traditionalist." I find this whole subject of what name our side should call itself both extremely interesting and extremely important, in terms of simple truth (sort of like "truth in advertising," which has great moral and philosophical importance), in terms of strategic value (all political terms and names have some sort of propaganda effect -- it's unavoidable), and for other reasons.
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Why Tertium Quid?
As almost all Americans are influenced by Whig politics, and "Conservatives" today are the nationalists of Hamiltonian stripe and "Traditionalists" are republicans of the Jeffersonian hue I think that Tertium Quid, following Mr. John Randolph of Roanoke, to be appropriate.
It is a term just eccentric enough for "truth in advertising" and gives a sense of the doomed that is helpful in terms of "strategic value". Consider the success of Mr. Randolph and his enduring (though limited) fame. That should be our calling; Tertium Quid, our label.
If I understand "Individualists," I'm glad it's gotten no votes
That no one has voted for "Individualists" is gratifying to me, for one. "Individualism" often gets cited as one of the West's defining characteristics (especially in contrast to far-eastern nations like China, for instance, where the people have more of a sense of the demands of the community than Westerners have, or whatever that term is supposed to mean in this context.) Whether or not it is a defining characteristic of the West — and if it is, in what way exactly — I'm not sure. But if it is, it's certain that it's a characteristic of the left-liberal (i.e., what I think of as the degenerate) faction of the western world, the faction that predominates among the West's élites, the one which makes the most noise and thus is the most visible. It's not a characteristic of the conservative (i.e., what I think of as the normal or progressive) faction. "Individualism" in this sociological sense seems merely to be a characteristic of those people who reject meaning — who are, of course, our liberal élites. I was never completely sure what "individualism" in this context meant at bottom, but I suspect it refers to a sort of narcissism and was cooked up as a term of critique by the left-liberal mind, not by the conservative mind, sort of the way the left keeps referring to the decade of Reagan, the eighties, as "The Decade of Greed." To them normalness and progress can only ever be greed and narcissism. So we have a situation in which the left-liberals are criticizing mainly themselves, without realizing it. In college I heard someone say, "Scratch a hippie and you find a Porsche." They're materialists and full of envy, and leftism is to a large degree the politics of envy. Has anyone ever seen a leftist dictator live modestly? Much of what drives the left's "anti-greed," "anti-materialism," "anti-narcissism" obsessions is seeing a certain reflection in the mirror — their own. They're too stupid to realize not everybody's like them.
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It's one of those "opposed to what" situations
I included it because a lot of the original American Right called itself "individualist" because it defined itself in opposition to the New Deal and leftish collectivism generally. ISI, for example, was originally the "Intercollegiate Society of Individualists." So at one time it really was a conservative slogan even though philosophically it's not conservative at all. I thought though that there might be some old-timers or paleolibertarians lurking about who still like the expression. Evidently not, at least not at this site.
Rem tene, verba sequentur.
Rem tene, verba sequentur.
What's in a name?
By the process of elimination:
Conservatives —instant lumping in with Pat Robertson, the Moral Majority, the Buckley and National Review, Bush II, etc. All of whom have their points, but at present the term is laden with hypocrisy because so many so called conservatives failed so badly to stem the growth of "big government", the extension of government into our lives. So that's out.
Right-wingers —what are we, boring Paul McCartney fans? Members of a debate team? Right-wing implies a necessary side to a two-sided thing, a yin to a yang, a balance to something. I'm thinking the problems are too deep for that to work. It's like this. The bird had a heart attack and is falling fast. To play on parlimentary terms, we don't need to be on the right wing, we need to leave the building. To play on flight, we need to hit the ejection button. So that's out.
Patriots. Too Mel Gibson. But I'll come back to it later.
This is a useful point to stop and answer this question: why would a serious conservative want to pick a name? To impress himself? To guide others? To affront and anger others?
We need to name ourselves to be fair and charitable to ourselves and to others. The name should describe our views and our aspirations. It should also serve to distinquish us and our views from others and other arguments. Finally, it should be as clever and attractive as possible.
Traditionalists. Too many syllables. Also, an instant turn-off to most Americans who might wonder, well, whose tradition? However, we'll come back to this too.
Normal People. Too abrasive. Obvious attack. Good for starting fights, but questionable usefullness. I am open to a history lesson. Wasn't there a political party that advocated a return to "normalcy"? How did that work out? Otherwise, another disqualification.
Individualists. Instant association with Ayn Rand and libertarians of all stripes. Like the above regarding conservaties, she and they had and have their points, but the term has been been swamped by, unfairly or otherwise, an association with ridiculous libertine "lifestyles". For example, a couple of years ago the Economist ran an article advocating the legalization of prostitution. Terrific. If that's what an "individualist" is, and that's what the usual association is, I'd rather describe myself as a "religious right-wing conservative whacko."
Progressives. Great if we'd just conquered a vast untamed territory and were building a new industrial economy. We're not. The feel now is, what's gonna crack first? Or it's, "I have confidence that we'll figure out a new technology to get us out of these energy, ecological, financial, educational, terrorist problems." Note that the question is not about changing moral norms, but about finding the next thing. Progressive implies pushing forward. People intuitively know that it is not that simple. We, they, can hear the enemy in the rear and on the flanks. How can we push forward when there is not much to base our push upon? So this is out. Disqualified due to prior use by Teddy Roosevelt et al.
Back to Patriots. Would be useful if everyone had studied latin. Then the root of the word would resonate on a deep level. As it is, it just comes off as self-righteousness, which, if not backed up with a gun and the credibility of a Mel Gibson, just sinks. Plus its doomed for vagueness.
Back to Traditionalists. For various reasons well-explained on this site, this is the best default term. It's particular enough. People still use the word tradition, even if its only to describe how they pack their motor vehicle for Sunday's football game, or for the trip to the beach or whatever. So people know what your are talking about. Instantly. That's good. And fair. And who cares if it throws up connotations of being stuck in a rut, of being anti-tech or the future. Even techies respect tradition —the scientific tradition, norms, etc. On the other hand it is just vague enough —whose tradition? to lead to a useful discussion.
But it's just not catchy.
Others: More later
Reactionary?
What do you think of the term reactionary?
We are not a "reaction" to them.
Mr. Franco asks what Turnabout readers think of the term reactionary? I for one don't think it's ideal because it's one of those terms that defines our side's views and values in terms of the other side and its aberrations — it makes us out to be "a reaction to them." We are no more a reaction to them than we are a reaction to Jeffrey Dahmer. They're sick or, if not sick themselves on an individual level, favor giving primacy to sickness. We're normal or, if not normal ourselves on an individual level, favor giving primacy to normalness. Our side is "progressive" and is the only side that is. Any progress to be made can only be made by the side of truth. Their side is incapable of making progress because progress never grows out of wrongness, lies, and perversion.
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"Normal people" or "Progressives" better than "Conservatives"
True or false?: Our side desires to make progress. True or false?: The left is incapable of making progress. True or false?: Between us and the left, ours is the only side capable of making genuine progress. OK — so, why are they called Progressives and we not? Shouldn't it be the reverse?
Let's say in some extremely weird cult the members drank poisons that caused harm to themselves — this poison harmed the liver, that one the heart, that the kidneys, that other one the lungs, and so on (so that after a few years the cult members became sick and debilitated). In order to distinguish ourselves from that cult, would we call ourselves the Conservatives? Or, perhaps, the Traditionalists? Of course not. We'd call ourselves the Normals and them the Weirdos. Moreover, calling ourselves one of the other two would almost concede legitimacy to the cult, as if they had a valid point of view which was merely different from ours. That would be not only wrong but ridiculous. Drinking poison isn't the only way to be weird. Is government abolishing races weird? Is government importing literally the entire nations of Mexico, Somalia, and Nigeria with the intention of replacing our original population weird? Is government trying to make men into women and vice-versa weird? Is government encouraging all fifteen-year-old schoolgirls in a England and Wales to perform fellatio on their classmates weird? Is government cracking down on cops because they are too manly (too "macho") or because what is referred to as their after-hours "heavy-drinking bar culture" excludes teetotalers weird? Is outlawing God and abolishing religion weird? Is forcing society to accept the idea of "marriage" between two men who suffer from a sexual perversion weird? Yes, it is? All that — and so much more — is weird? Plenty weird? Well then, does it make sense for us to distinguish ourselves from all that weirdness by calling ourselves "Conservatives" or "Traditionalists"? It wouldn't appear to…
In the poll I favored two choices: "Normal people" and "Progressives." (I had to choose only one, so I chose "Normal people.") I concede nothing to the other side — not legitimacy, not anything.
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Rabbi Schiller makes my point more simply and clearly
In the above comment of mine and in this and this earlier ones, what I was trying to say was what Rabbi Schiller says here:
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David Kerr: Would you describe yourself as a cultural conservative?
Rabbi Mayer Schiller: Well, certainly as far as contemporary terminology goes that’s an accurate description, although what we call "conservatism" today would simply be considered normal life fifty years ago or a hundred years ago. There aren’t two sides on questions of basic decency, respect and modesty. I really think there aren’t two sides to these issues so if conservatism implies acceptance to this other illegitimate side I reject it [...].
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(Rabbi Schiller is saying there's one normalness, not two.)
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Long live free Flanders!
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"Progressive" because conserv
"Progressive" because conservatism is progressive compared to the old-fashioned "Progressives" who rule at the moment.
http://turnabout.ath.cx:8000/title/on+to+restoration On to Restoration!
Naming Ourselves
I think the label, Tertium Quid, is the one we should use.
Serious conservatives should refer to themselves as
monarchists.
;)
question is backwards
"Conservative" has been so abused that it should either be redefined (if that is not strictly possible, then at least described as done by Russel Kirk in his 6 Credos and 10 principles that he believed conservatives have in common) or not used unless specified in reference to some clearly identifiable or historical manifestation, such as "Burkean conservative" or "fiscal conservative"). I have hardly any idea of what your "serious conservative" means nowadays, when rogues and fools use the term to obscure their motives or dignify their confusion. I don't think a cloistered monk has much in common with an objectivist CEO or a CATO Libertarian or Buchanan nationalist, etc. The term is too dignified by serious and informed thinkers to be used in the mean and opportunistic partisan politics of the US today. It is clear that virtually no other people in the world (including Canada) use the word as a practical political descriptor as it is being used in the dozens of fund-raising letters I have received lately.
liberal establishment über alles!
lazy rich people,crackers,losers white trailer trash,suburbanites with a trailer in his/her minds,weisse untermenschen, garbage pale kids,root beer catholic irish acting as white anglo saxon people,morons,conservatives retardos,disposable people,etc.
Murray Rothbard's suggestions
Murray Rothbard, in his 1992 speech, suggests using "radical reactionaries," "radical rightists," or "the Hard Right." I like the Hard Right.
Hmm
I don't particularly care for any of the suggested terms. Well, I like Conservative, but it's a blanket term at this point that is inadequately descriptive for the endeavor.
I like Reclaimers, but it's probably too cheesy.
Hard to come up with something to sum up an opposition to supercilious bullying of liberalism and a return to and inheritance of received tradition as well as a forward-looking rationalism.
don't surrender "conservative"
Let's not let the Neocons and NR-cons hijack this term. We need to reclaim it.
I like reactionary.
I like reactionary.
"Conservatism cannot be precisely defined or identified"
Chilton Williamson Jr. makes a few brief comments on the topic of what conservatism is, in an article about his new book at Vdare.com:
"I believe that conservatism is not, to use that overworked term, an 'ideology.' The conservative tradition is valuable because it is real, real because it is living, and alive to the extent that it cannot be precisely defined, identified, and transfixed with a pin to any fixed place within the political taxonomy. Oscar Wilde quipped that people who make fun of Society are the ones who can’t get into it. Similarly, the neoconservatives -- who insist on defining conservatism in ideological terms -- are those who never were part of the conservative tradition in the first place, and don’t belong to it now. [...P]aleoconservatives are neither delusionary nor insane, nor even ignorant. There is a discernible and coherent intellectual and political tradition in the West that traces forward four millennia and ends, essentially, with us. What is more, this tradition was accepted as rational, reasonable, and even commonsensible up until the time of Bacon, or thereabouts."
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"If a tree falls and an expert doesn't hear it, is there a sound?" Yes, the sweetest, most melodious sound in all creation: the sound of entropy being brought clanking, screeching, grinding to a halt.
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My preferred terms are still Normals (us) and Degenerates (them)
Here's a thoughtful article on the nature of leftism by a blogger, John Ray, whom I've been aware of for some time now but hadn't really begun exploring until the other day. In this sampling taken almost at random from a very long piece he gets into the "Was Brezhnev a conservative?" paradox among many other analyses of the left-right divide, making lots of points having inevitable bearing on the subject of this Turnabout poll: What should conservative call themselves? Is the appellation "Conservative" satisfactory? (I find it wholly unsatisfactory and, though I use it to refer to myself out of convention -- and sort of cringe inwardly each time I do -- I no more consider myself a "conservative" than I consider myself, let's say, a Country Club Republican -- or the Man in the Moon, for that matter. I continue to feel a name change is needed for our side, while agreeing that's easier said than done. But no, "conservative" is not satisfactory.)
Here's Ray:
"And the great rubric of 'conservative' long fastened on Rightists seems equally moribund. 'Conservative' is generally amplified as meaning 'opposed to change' or 'favouring the status quo' but from the Reagan/Thatcher years onward, Rightists have been the great advocates and practitioners of social and political change. Rightists have been almost revolutionary in tearing down the proud edifices of the Left -- with privatization, deregulation, welfare cutbacks, tax reductions etc. Judging by the politics of the last 20 years, Rightists LOVE change! Certainly, they have clearly and energetically changed what was once the status quo.
"So what is going on? Again, what really IS Leftism/liberalism and WHY are people Leftist/liberal? What, if anything, do people have in common who describe themselves (and are described by others) as 'Leftists,' 'socialists,' 'social democrats,' 'Communists' and (in North America) 'liberals'? However unsatisfactory and apparently simplistic the Left/Right division of the political world may be, there is any amount of research showing it to be a powerful, ubiquitous and perhaps inescapable way of identifying both people and political parties[, ...] so we do need to answer such questions.
"The central proposal here may seem at first paradoxical but it is that attitude to the status quo defines Leftists rather than Rightists. It is proposed that it is not Rightists who are in favour of the status quo. They are in fact indifferent to it and may equally favour it or oppose it according to circumstances. Leftists, on the other hand, always RESENT the status quo in the modern democracies, no matter what. Whatever else the Leftist may be, the bedrock of Leftism is a strong dislike or even a hatred of the way the world is. They have a strong desire or even a need for political change, often extreme change. This does not, of course, mean that Leftists will favour all sorts of change equally. What sort of change the Leftist favours will depend on what it is about the world that the Leftist dislikes. It will depend on the needs that drive his/her desire for change.
"The Rightist, by contrast, generally has no need either for change or its converse. If anything, Rightists favour progress -- both material and social. So most Rightists are conservatives (cautious) not because of their attitude to change per se. On some occasions they may even agree with the particular policy outcomes that the Leftist claims to desire. They resist change, then, mainly when it appears incautious -- and they are cautious (skeptical of the net benefits of particular policies) generally because of their realism about the limitations (selfishness, folly, shortsightedness, aggressiveness etc.) of many of their fellow humans [...]. So it is only vis à vis Leftists that the Right can on some occasions and in some eras appear conservative (cautious about proposals for social change)."
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Notice how in the last part of this excerpt Ray makes the obvious point that "Rightists favor progress." It's a point I've made in support of my feeling that the "Progressives" are us, not they who laughably claim to be. Wrongness and untruths cannot make progress, only rightness. Leftism, being wrongness and untruths, is incapable of contributing to social progress. Social progress can come only from our side.
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"If a tree falls and an expert doesn't hear it, is there a sound?" Yes, the sweetest, most melodious sound in all creation: the sound of entropy being brought clanking, screeching, grinding to a halt.
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Paul Craig Roberts has words to say which are relevant
In his new column up yesterday at Vdare.com, entitled What Became of Conservatives?, Paul Craig Roberts contributes, in effect, to the discussion of what liberalism and conservatism are become today:
"Once upon a time there was a liberal media. It developed out of the Great Depression and the New Deal. Liberals believed that the private sector is the source of greed that must be restrained by government acting in the public interest. The liberals’ mistake was to identify morality with government. Liberals had great suspicion of private power and insufficient suspicion of the power and inclination of government to do good. Liberals became Benthamites (after Jeremy Bentham). They believed that as the people controlled government through democracy, there was no reason to fear government power, which should be increased in order to accomplish more good. [Emphasis added.] The conservative movement that I grew up in did not share the liberals’ abiding faith in government. 'Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.' [Emphasis in the original.] Today it is liberals, not conservatives, who endeavor to defend civil liberties from the state. Conservatives have been won around to the old liberal view that as long as government power is in their hands, there is no reason to fear it or to limit it. [Emphasis added.] Thus, The Patriot Act, which permits government to suspend a person’s civil liberty by calling him a terrorist with or without proof. Thus, preemptive war, which permits the President to invade other countries based on unverified assertions. There is nothing conservative about these positions. To label them conservative is to make the same error as labeling the 1930s German Brownshirts conservative. American liberals called the Brownshirts 'conservative,' because the Brownshirts were obviously not liberal. They were ignorant, violent, delusional, and they worshipped a man of no known distinction. Brownshirts’ delusions were protected by an emotional force field. Adulation of power and force prevented Brownshirts from recognizing implications for their country of their reckless doctrines."
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I can say I am neither liberal nor conservative as these two "positions" appear to be manifesting themselves today. I am a third thing, whose closest political representation would be Howard Phillips' and Michael Peroutka's Constitution Party (and also the brand-new Vlaams Belang Party in Flanders, incidentally).
I happen to viscerally despise the Country Club Republicans, who represent nothing and are ultimately as degenerate and nihilist as any branch of the extreme left-radical fringe. That's why I never read CCR-worshipping sites such as NRO and Lucianne.com and only very seldom go to FreeRepublic. By their leftism, their Wall Street toadying, their Supreme Court appointments bordering on the criminally insane, their uncouth and destructive Tranzism only a small step away from both Stalinism and Nazism put together, and the rest of their unacceptable, unnacountable, aloof, haughty, disdainful, supremely arrogant wrongness and Bushism, the CCRs have made themselves a true enemy of this country and of the American people. I could no more vote for George Bush or anyone like him than I could vote for Bill or Hillary.
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"If a tree falls and an expert doesn't hear it, is there a sound?" Yes, the sweetest, most melodious sound in all creation: the sound of entropy being brought clanking, screeching, grinding to a halt.
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Ever wonder just who coined the political term "Conservatives"?
The nature of conservatism is discussed in a log entry by Martin Hutchinson up tonight at MajorityRights.com and well worth a read (apart from rare blemishes such as where, at the end of the following excerpt, the author refers to Pat Buchanan as a "isolationist nativist").
"The etymology of [the political term 'Conservatism'] is straightforward. The term was first used as a description of a political party in a 50 page article, probably by John Wilson Croker, in the January 1830 Quarterly Review, a publication that generally supported the great Tory governments of 1783-1830, then in their last months of power before losing definitively to the Whigs in November of that year. The 'Conservative' party was indeed the party that sought to preserve what was already there; in this case the specific constitution and policies of those Tory governments, which were by that time embattled.
"After the series of Tory disasters in 1830-32, the term 'Conservative' was picked up by Sir Robert Peel, leader of the Tory remnants, and was used to do three things. First, it was used to reassure traditionalist voters that the party was opposed to further destructive change. Second, it was used to give the party a 'new image' that might appeal to moderates. Third, by stigmatizing them as not 'Conservatives' but 'reactionaries' it was used to de-legitimize the remnants of the Tory right, such as the Duke of Wellington and more distantly the aged Lord Eldon, who were a threat to Peel’s dominance.
"By the time Disraeli became leader of the Conservative Party in 1868, the term had been in use for nearly two generations. It had been set aside after the 1846 split over the Corn Laws, when the party divided into 'Peelites' and 'Protectionists' but had been brought back into full use by Disraeli’s predecessor as leader, the 14th Earl of Derby, after Peel died in 1850 and the party abandoned protectionism in 1852.
"Since the original coiner of a term has a prescriptive right to define its meaning, Conservatism therefore means Conservatism as defined in the Quarterly Review article. It does not mean internationally belligerent Woodrow Wilsonian 'neo-Conservatism' nor the mystical religiously oriented 'social Conservatism' of the U.S. 'red states' nor the isolationist nativist 'paleo-Conservatism' of Patrick Buchanan, nor the leftist social democrat 'Conservatism' of Harold Macmillan and Edward Heath, nor even the 'two nations' modified Whiggery of Disraeli. It means the preservation and where necessary restitution of the constitutional, economic and social policies of the Tory governments of 1783-1830, and in particular of the two great Tory prime ministers William Pitt and Robert, Lord Liverpool."
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The author draws some stark distinctions between conservatism and libertarianism:
"Conservatism is not libertarianism; individual liberty is an important facet of Conservatism, but it is set within an overall framework of a secure social and constitutional order. Unlike Gladstonian liberalism, Conservatism recognizes the imperfections of mankind, and recognizes also that the perfect nirvana of the libertarian social and political order, with minimal government, minimal economic interference and minimal social regulation would in practice be a perfect hell for all but the toughest and least scrupulous. Without government imposing a rule of law, crime would soar unchecked; without market 'rules of the game' (preferably imposed by practitioners rather than by government) fraud and criminality would run rampant; without social order, decent family life would collapse."
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The following characterization of King George III (the king whose judgment in regard to the American Colonies was so faulty he's thought to have been borderline-insane) will surprise Americans:
"A wise monarch such as George III could be very helpful to Conservatism;"
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A perfectly legitimate part of the Church's societal role:
"The Church played an important role in all this. Both Pitt and Liverpool were no more than conventionally church-going, with a strong admixture of the rationalism of David Hume. Nevertheless the Church hierarchy played an important social role. By encouraging an Established Church, for example embarking in 1818 on a substantial church building program in factory towns, Pitt and Liverpool ensured that conventional morality and respect for the constitutional order would be well propagated among the entire community and that sectarian or milleniarist religious radicalism would be discouraged. By discouraging vice and encouraging loyalty, Tory bishops and clergy were doing society’s work as well as God’s. Outside moral questions, the Church had a major voice in political, economic and scientific matters through the Bishops’ membership of the House of Lords, but it did not dominate them."
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As I said, the piece contains blemishes. Here's one:
"a Conservative believes that the world’s population is of inadequate and in rich countries worsening average quality, in terms of intelligence and education, and welcomes advances in genetics as a means towards changing this."
I don't see where an endorsement of eugenics has a role to play in genuine conservatism. I'm open to persuasion. But I just don't see it.
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Long live Flanders!
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Conservative Revolutionaries
How about Conservative Revolutionaries?
Either that or Traditionalist or Reactionaries is good IMHO.
Conservative Revolutionaries
How about Conservative Revolutionaries?
Either that or Traditionalist or Reactionaries is good IMHO.
I agree with Rothbard that "Conservative" is inadequate.
Francisco Franco writes, "I like 'the Hard Right.' "
What's "Hard" about being normal? What's "Right" about it? Isn't it just ... normal? Does the term "the Hard Right" add something to "normal"? Does "normal" have to be qualified? Do those of us who find partial birth abortion, homosexual pretend-marriage (with possible fines and jail sentences for any who criticize it), the forbidding of the display of the Ten Commandments on a courtroom wall, the humiliation and punishment of kindergartners for saying grace before eating a school snack, forced race-raplacement against the wills of communities with, in some countries including France, Belgium, the U.K., Canada and others, punishment including fines and imprisonment for "hate speech" for those who resist -- do those of us who find these and other horrors unacceptable need to categorize themselves as "Hard Right" for so finding them? A few years ago a bunch of nutcases released sarin gas in the Tokyo subway, killing many. Normal people -- people who are nothing other than normal; who have little or no idea what "the left" and "the right" are and couldn't care less -- can such people condemn that? Do people have to be members of the "Hard Right" or something to oppose that? Well, a nutcase is a nutcase and a moral degenerate a moral degenerate whether he wants to release sarin gas in the Tokyo subway, or punish and humiliate a 6-year-old girl for saying grace, or obsess about the words "under God" in the Pledge as this Newdow nutcase is doing in California. Maybe the parents of that little girl who taught her to say grace are simple folk who never heard of things like "the right" or "the left" -- many simple folk haven't really, and don't know what such terms mean, and don't care. But they know the difference between right and wrong; between morally sick and morally healthy; between normal and degenerate. That, they know. I concede no legitimacy to the other side by moving over within the category of normalness to make room for them to occupy it alongside me, then having to think up something to call myself, to distinguish myself from them, from "their type of normalness." There isn't any other type, but only one -- and they're not it.
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"For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?"
Psalms 1:6, 2:1 (King James)
I like reactionary.
"Reactionary" is excellent. I always use it when posting on liberal forums. Liberals know precisely what reactionaries are and they also know reactionaries know what they are. Helps eliminate much of the liberal pretense of being moderates, independents and so on..
There is also candor and a slight touch of humor in throwing back at them a word they have been taught is derogatory and that, most of them believe, no one would ever admit to being. Tends to disarm them.?
paul craig roberts is liberal?
if paul roberts stand against government powers why he supports and endorse to pinochet? is tyranny and neo-liberalism just fine and o.k. when it only affects to latin americans,it remembers me to ron paul who fight commies in america but supports to chà vez and attacks cuban embargo,or people in georgetown university promoting abstinence while designating in their board to gustavo cisneros a representative fro playboy channel n south america.
Another flaw in the piece
It means the preservation and where necessary restitution of the constitutional, economic and social policies of the Tory governments of 1783-1830, and in particular of the two great Tory prime ministers William Pitt and Robert, Lord Liverpool.
If this is true, then conservatism does not exist outside of Great Britain. Now, you might object that those in other countries who favor policies that are mostly in philosophical agreement with Tory policies could also be called "conservative", but the piece does not say that.
Also, a Conservative in England today who thinks that certain economic policies of 1783-1830 have since been proven inadequate by advancing economic research and experience would not be allowed to be called "conservative".
The entire quote is a bit of pedantry aimed at separating true conservatism from the false conservatism of the neocons, and others whom the author finds distasteful, such as "red-state social conservatives". The proper means of doing that would be to articulate the conservative principles that were always associated with British conservatism of that era, show how they were followed outside of Britain by true conservatives elsewhere, and then show how those principles are contradicted by neocons, etc. The author attempts to avoid all the heavy lifting by simply employing an etymological fallacy: the word meant a certain thing in 1830, so its meaning is forever frozen. In which case, I should refer to all people who live in rural areas as "pagans", based on the origin of that word.